Curse

WhiteAsIce · Jan 07, 2012, 08:08 AM // 08:08

With the update reducing AL in HM, Icy Veins won't have its damage reduced so much anymore. Would this change merit bringing Icy Veins along instead of Discord (on a hero or not)?

Kaida the Heartless · Jan 07, 2012, 08:50 AM // 08:50

The AoE on death doesn't stack with multiple applications, so adding any more is pointless; you get less damage, longer recharge, and a higher energy cost. However, adding it to a single one of the Discords will give you a bit of AoE damage with little drawback.

Kunder · Jan 07, 2012, 07:05 PM // 19:05

Main problem is that Heroes don't cast (or at least have a low priority to cast) IV until the enemy is almost dead. If your heroes are in any way competent, the almost dead enemy will have a 75% chance of dying before the hero finishes casting IV and it fizzles.

Would be really great if they used it correctly, I would probably run 2x IV if that was the case. As it is, somewhat meh unless your team is killing things slow enough for the hero to consistently get IV off.

On a related note though, Deathly Swarm is a pretty deadly semi-AoE spell. Keep in mind that MMs can run 18/19 death magic, and its not like MMs were weak to begin with. Also [email protected] and other things weak to cold. If hero AI on IV ever got changed they would combine amazingly well with a full minion hero who still has a secondary attribute open.

Kaida the Heartless · Jan 07, 2012, 09:00 PM // 21:00

I haven't tested it, but with the Monster HP increase and a mere 1 second cast time on IV, are you sure the Heroes would still have trouble casting it on time? I haven't heard of this issue before, that's why I'm asking.

Kunder · Jan 07, 2012, 09:32 PM // 21:32

Keep in mind that your necromancers aren't simply sitting around doing nothing waiting to cast IV. If they start casting a 2s spell, with .75s after cast, thats a maximum of 3.75s until IV actually hits and if your average spell is 2s the average is nearly 2.5s. And since they only seem to start casting it at around ~30-40% enemy health, so they tend to miss a LOT for me. That said, I'm running a seriously damage focused build with 3x SF, 2x MM (all bone fiends), with everything sitting in EBSoH and enemies with weakened armor.

Health limit for them casting should probably be raised to around 60-70% IMO. The spell's duration is well over 30s, even if a weak team takes 20s to kill the target it will still go off just fine. Its not like you are in danger of "wasting" it.

Coast · Jan 09, 2012, 11:47 AM // 11:47

why not just also when they at full hp? i want my heroes to spam iv

Laylat · Jan 09, 2012, 11:58 AM // 11:58

I carry it on a N/Rt and it works nicely if you, as a Warrior ball the enemies and cast IV on your own target. I know for sure that a heal isn't needed at the beginning of a pull. A lot of enemies are either dead or too far apart for IV after the initial cast of IV, so I don't bother casting it again and leave the AI to decide (failing about half the time :/)

Swingline · Jan 09, 2012, 12:00 PM // 12:00

Well it's a known fact the AI needs improvement for most skills in game so this doesn't surprise me but waiting till 30-40% health may not be a bad thing. You won't see them casting IV when the team is taking hard hits right after agro. 60% would be perfect though.

Kunder · Jan 09, 2012, 12:52 PM // 12:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coast

why not just also when they at full hp? i want my heroes to spam iv

Because then there is a 50/50 chance that instead of landing on the first enemy to die (as you want) it lands on the last enemy to die (dealing no extra AoE damage). If they throw it on the first enemy to lose 30% of their health then they are probably hitting the enemy going to die first, maybe second.

Jeydra · Jan 10, 2012, 03:00 PM // 15:00

Try running the calcs yourself. Discord is almost trivially better than Icy Veins, unless you are planning on using high SR to fuel another attribute line.

Fia · Jan 14, 2012, 09:09 PM // 21:09

Depends on the area. Discord is probably better where mobs are small (most of Prophecies), IV otherwise. Also depends on your willingness to ball up mobs frequently.

It's nice that IV and Weaken Armor are same-profession. A 2ndary that would justify 13-14 Soul Reaping is maybe Channeling (Splinter, Rift instead of Weaken Armor, A-Rage) or Dom/Illusion. Or even mass Bone Fiends for fun

roachsrealm · Mar 03, 2012, 06:41 PM // 18:41

IV on heroes in my experience is kind of lackluster. They do seem to be good about apreading Putrid Bile and Rising Bile, however.

I almost always run an IV, PB, PE build on my nec. I call target, they hex-stack, and I switch targets for any skills my heroes have. More often than not when one target dies, almost everything else does, and anything that doesn't gets finished of by Putrid Explosion and Sig of Sorrow spams from the heroes. (except anywhere in Old Tyria before the Fire Islands, of course.)

I've found the IV combo to be better overall than Discord simply because the trigger for IV is going to happen eventually, regardless. Discord relies so heavily on prereqs that sometimes you get those situations where you simply can't use it. Stacking IV over itself won't actually hurt anything either. You just replace the hex and still get the benefit of the trigger. The initial is worth it in the long run. Necrosis serves as an excellent sub for Discord on a players bar and at half the cost, and you essentially get the best of both worlds.

(in HM its much better, imo. Especially in the realm of torment with a high lightbringer rank. Ive witnessed damage packets in the 300's on all enemy mobs pretty reliably)

Hugh Manatee · Mar 04, 2012, 03:50 AM // 03:50

I usually put IV on the healing N/Rt if I take one, the resto elites aren't that impressive, speccing into death for discord or curses wouldn't help me, so I stick IV in there as a nice death facilitation device.